Genesis Header
Bulletin Board

Topic: Learning from Adversity


Show older Messages Guidelines Topics List About this forum
Posted by: Robert Mitchell
Institution: None
Date posted: Sun Oct 12 16:39:28 1997
Message:
QUESTION:1 ....Not necessarly so..Psalms 51:5 ... & ... Romans 5:12.! ....... QUESTION:2 ... Due to fleshly imperfections , one may commit sins ...Romans 7:21-23 ... & ...Romans 6:12-14 .!........... AND ... WAR'S from what source .... 4:1-12.!

Replies: (list all replies)

  • Wars From What Source: James 4:1-3


    Posted by: K. Klein (mackiem@erols.com)
    Institution: None
    Date posted: Wed Dec 11 12:02:32 1996
    Message:
    I am concerned about Hagar's story and the way it tells us to deal with adversity.

    During the discussion, Eugene Rivers pointed out that the stories of the bible present adversity as a vehicle of hope, as adversity drives us to action. An example was given that Sarah needed to act by giving Hagar to Abraham before she was rewarded with Isaac. This is a positive interpretation that encourages activity over passivity. However, I share a concern of Bharati Mukherjee. She stated that there are times when the bible's stories advocate just sitting back and bearing adversity passively while having faith that God will see your suffering, hear your cries and save you. This is how I read Hagar's story.

    Hagar passively does only what she is told to do, except in two instances: when she flees Sarah's abuses, and when she puts her son in a bush so she needn't see him die.

    Fleeing Sarah's abuses is a brave action to take, since, as a slave, she does not have a secure destination waiting for her. This is admirable and shows faith in the spirit of human freedom and dignity. She is unwilling to have herself or her unborn child consistently demeaned and abused. But God sends her back. God tells her to passively bear the abuse and wait for her reward. This is the type of behavior that concerned Ms. Mukherjee. This is the type of behavior that led so many American slaves to passively accept their lot and wait for their "pie in the sky" reward.

    The same behavior is seen when Hagar is banished with her son. She does not resist. She does not insist on being given money or a reasonable supply of food or water, or even being brought to a place where she may find work. She just passively does as she is told. Only then, when her son is at death's door, is she rewarded by God, only then is she and her son saved.

    Ms. Mukherjee's concerns seem valid here. Hagar's story seems to be about the rewards of passively accepting abuse while waiting for God to intervene.

    I am troubled by this and am hoping someone could provide a more constructive interpretation.


    Posted by: Carol Marshall (ashlando@well.com)
    Institution: UCB
    Date posted: Thu Dec 5 16:38:40 1996
    Message:
    Shame is the key. I think that when the oppressed feels ashamed of their victimization then they become the oppressor of another volnerable soul to feel powerful again. In this macho world we all fear appearing volnerable, maybe that goes back to Adam and Eve and their discovering their nakedness....perhaps?....To be honest I don't fully remember the story, I am just trying to remember it as I write this posting. Gosh, I will have to reread that part. But I believe the Adam and Eve story was the metaphoric birth of the most destructive of human forces, shame.


    Posted by: Donald Liu (dliu@expersoft.com)
    Institution: None
    Date posted: Tue Dec 3 19:25:20 1996
    Message:
    It is well known in the psychology that "Hurt people hurt people"! Being oppressed will never be the sufficient motivation for one to treat others nicely. What's worse, they tend to identify with the oppressor!

    This is another evidence for human being's incurable disease -SIN, unless we find the real and final solution in God's salvation!


    Posted by: Rosa Partee (moniepie@juno.com)
    Institution: none
    Date posted: Mon Nov 18 2:28:32 1996
    Message:
    when one is oppressed, the mindset of low self esteem usually takes place. only when the oppressed is truly committed to empowerment through change towards a higher purpose does the oppressed not become the oppressor. It is the same as an abused child becoming a parent who abuses their child -- continuing the cycle of pain. Only when the oppressed sees a way to discontinue the pain of abuse and follows it does the pattern change for the better.


    Show older Messages Guidelines Topics List About this forum
    About NetForum - v.1.2.6

    [ The Participants Speak | General Questions ]
    [ The First Murder | In God's Image | Temptation | Apocalypse | Call and Promise ]
    [ A Family Affair | The Test | Blessed Deception | God Wrestling | Exile ]

    Main MenuTop of This Page